The Limina Podcast - Episode 9

Design that Scales

Guest: : Dan Mall


Design systems have become essential in today’s digital landscape, especially for organizations aiming to achieve design maturity and operational excellence. In episode 9 of The Limina Podcast, we had the pleasure of hosting Dan Mall, a renowned creative director, entrepreneur, and author of Design That Scales. Dan shared invaluable insights into the challenges and opportunities that come with implementing design systems, particularly at scale.

The Real Value of Design Systems

One of the key takeaways from our conversation was Dan’s emphasis on the true purpose of design systems. He highlighted that while many view design systems as a set of UI components or a toolkit for designers and developers, their actual value lies in their ability to drive organizational change and unlock new levels of efficiency and innovation. Dan mentioned, “Design systems are not just about creating the best practices; they are about collecting the common practices and incrementally improving them over time.”

This perspective shifts the focus from the technical aspects of design systems to their strategic importance. By embedding design systems into the fabric of an organization, teams can work more efficiently, reduce redundancy, and focus on solving real business problems rather than getting bogged down in repetitive design tasks.

Design Systems as Innovation Enablers

Another crucial point Dan made was the role of design systems as enablers of innovation. He pointed out that by automating and standardizing routine design tasks, design systems free up time and resources, allowing teams to concentrate on more complex and creative challenges. This, in turn, can lead to significant breakthroughs in product development and customer experience.

Dan illustrated this by drawing an analogy to the Ford Model T assembly line, explaining how core components have remained consistent over time while enabling innovations in other areas. In the same way, a well-implemented design system can serve as a stable foundation, upon which organizations can build and innovate.


“Design systems are not just about creating the best practices; they are about collecting the common practices and incrementally improving them over time.”

– Dan Mall



“It’s not about being the design police,” Dan said. “It’s about supporting and enabling the entire organization to achieve better outcomes through thoughtful design and collaboration.”

-Dan Mall


Navigating the Cultural Challenges

Implementing a design system is not without its challenges, particularly when it comes to cultural shifts within an organization. Dan stressed the importance of approaching design system work with humility and a willingness to engage in the “dirty work” of cultivating and maintaining the system. He likened it to gardening, where the real value comes from the careful nurturing of growth rather than imposing rigid standards from above.

Dan also discussed the dangers of ego and dogmatism in design system work, urging teams to remain flexible and adaptable.

Looking Ahead: The Future of Design Systems

As we look to the future, Dan believes that design systems will continue to evolve, becoming even more integral to how organizations operate and innovate. However, he also cautioned that the success of design systems depends on how well they are integrated into the organization’s overall strategy and how effectively they are used to drive real business outcomes.

For organizations considering or currently implementing design systems, Dan’s advice is clear: focus on proving the value of the system quickly, align it with the broader business goals, and remain open to continuous improvement. “It’s time for us to prove it,” Dan emphasized. “The quicker we can unlock value, the more successful our design systems will be.”

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LinkedIn: ⁠⁠/in/danmall/⁠
TW/X: ⁠@DanMall⁠
IG: ⁠@DanMallTeaches⁠
YT: ⁠@DanMallTeaches
Book: ⁠Design That Scales
Websites: ⁠DanMall.com, ⁠DesignSystem.University⁠, GreatJob.Kids⁠